TOPICS discussed include: anthrax, attacks on Planned Parenthood, addressing terrorism without force, the left response, G.W. Bush, Salman Rushdie's response, nuclear threat, art and art funding, fasting, media coverage, utopian societies, art and life, Sunera Thobani article
Bed-In New Zealand: david - great to see you!
Bed-In New Zealand: have you been out tonight?
dhl: hi there
dhl: I can see the chat window now.
dhl: taking a sec to figure out how this all works
Bed-In New Zealand: yes, it takes a while to get used to this. we're experts now after 22 hours at it!
dhl: and only 26 more to go
Bed-In New Zealand: thanks for reminding us!
Bed-In New Zealand: hey, is that your camera you have hooked up I can see the video info
Bed-In New Zealand: i think its cool
dhl: It's SoEx's DVcam. I'm borrowing it right now and realized I had all the right connections to do this
Bed-In New Zealand: excellent thinking.
dhl: don't know how to turn that stuff off
Bed-In New Zealand: i hear from barbara ravizza that you went to her exhibition!
dhl: Yes! she's very cool. I've been meaning to email you for about 2 weeks Amy. apologies for the tardiness. much to catch up on
Bed-In New Zealand: btw, you are very photogenic! how is everything with you. what is the political climate in sf like these days, stretcher, etc... but perhaps we should stick to world matters here althought you are currently our only active guest, so, who cares!
dhl: thank you. And the two of you look lovely in bed right now. Yes I'll get that email off to you soon with the details. The barbara connection is interesting. On to world events
Bed-In New Zealand: hello nice guy. Welcome to the bed-in for peace
dhl: guess he wasn't into it
dhl: So what's the pulse out there in NZ?
Bed-In New Zealand: oh people have been in and out like that. we had our suspicions about him. people with names like nice guy, guy and a girl, male 22, etc... are usually out for sex.
Bed-In New Zealand: we usually give them the spiel and then boot them if need be but enjoy them as comic relief.
dhl: not surprising
Bed-In New Zealand: nz is good, people are wary, a few anthrax scares and a lot of concern about the economy and tourism really.
dhl: who is Katy?
katy: well, i'm back and nice guy appears to be tying to contact me and my still image.... go with your instinct on this one...
katy: just finished checking out your websites.... thoroughly enjoyed them!
Bed-In New Zealand: we don't see him here katy but will boot him if he reappears.
dhl: yeah the anthrak thing is reall weird. paranoia for all
Bed-In New Zealand: hello luis, Welcome to the bed-in for peace...
Bed-In New Zealand: dhl - this is katy from ft. lauderdale, katy- dhl is a friend of ours from sf.
Luis: don't have comments......it's very sad !
Bed-In New Zealand: katy - i never asked you about your video work?
dhl: I was going to sell this on ebay but I may just keep it now... (dhl shows his gas mask)
Bed-In New Zealand: very dark but amusing in this context
Bed-In New Zealand: remember, we are without food and not much sleep.
katy: whats strange about the anthrax thing is that yesterday about 100 planned parenhood clincs were targeted (apparently it wasn't anthrax) and i have heard little to nothing about it on mainstream media... quite angry about that... the letters were sent from
Bed-In New Zealand: dhl - soex, iac, so many acronyms to ask you about. bear with us for a moment katy -
dhl: planned parenthood was targeted in the US a couple years ago but no one made much of a fuss about it
katy: sent from the army of god: the virginia dare chapter (v. dare being the first documented birth of a white child in america)
dhl: yeah, that's the case
Bed-In New Zealand: this situation seems to be letting people act out their wildest most destructive fantasies. one anfter another they are just fuel for the fire.
Bed-In New Zealand: and, what will help to alleviate the mess. more info, less info? bed-ins?
Bed-In New Zealand: such a mess.
dhl: tough question. hard to change closed minds
katy: much like the j. swaggart comment, blaming the feminists, gays, lesbians, and whatever else.... on the attacks... a call to arms? hhhmm...
Bed-In New Zealand: i am really wrestling with the whole evil thing. i mean, why? how does this happen or more to the point, how can i deal with it?
dhl: did you read the Salman Rushdie link I posted on stretcher?
Bed-In New Zealand: no, i haven't checked it out, recently?
dhl: that was falwell. pretty lame
Bed-In New Zealand: katy - stretcher.org is an internet publication that dhl and i are involved with.
katy: ohhh... oops... guess i'm guilty of stereotyping now!
katy: ah ha. more info!
dhl: yes it's in the blog. It's a really great essay. Really spoke to me.
Bed-In New Zealand: i'll look for it.
Bed-In New Zealand: hello mu. Welcome to the bed-in for peace...
dhl: scroll down and you'll see it. I'd love to hear what both of you think
Bed-In New Zealand: okay, we'll check it out.
Mu: hi, just peace in everyone's mind!
Bed-In New Zealand: well said.
Bed-In New Zealand: is that mu?
Mu: is she cute. just turned one yr old.
Bed-In New Zealand: very cute, where are you located?
Bed-In New Zealand: what are people thinking in hk about the terrorist acts and the US response?
dhl: just testing sound
Mu: myself, the International ally is doing the right thing to go after terrorist.
Bed-In New Zealand: can terrorism be stopped?
Mu: but just worry about more innocent people get kill or injured.
Bed-In New Zealand: yes, me too.
Bed-In New Zealand: how can we fight terror without killing innocent people?
Mu: never, until everyone has a peace mind.
dhl: same here. I don't know about stopped, but hopefully greatly curtailed.
Bed-In New Zealand: hi dan. Welcome to the bed-in for peace
Mu: have no idea!
Mu: too bad.
Bed-In New Zealand: peace of mind is the key, how to get it is the question.
dhl: without killing innocent people or taking away our civil liberties
(private message deleted)
*** Bed-In New Zealand has booted BIG DICK ***
Bed-In New Zealand: so big dick was a big dick?
katy: thank you
Bed-In New Zealand: we didn't have anthing from him. was he texting to you personally?
dhl: doubt it
Bed-In New Zealand: no problem.
Bed-In New Zealand: hhm. something to watch for.
Bed-In New Zealand: well, as i'm sure you know, there are way more men on ivisit than women.
dhl: it's a jungle out here
Bed-In New Zealand: dhl - did big dick bother you?
katy: has anyone heard anything about gw meeting with china today and becoming allies?
Bed-In New Zealand: haven't heard and unfortunately mu is gone.
dhl: about GW, yes
Bed-In New Zealand: what's the word?
dhl: they've put aside the spy plane differences and promise to work together
Bed-In New Zealand: well, i suppose that is productive. it's hard to be cheered by anything at the moment. it all seems like a sham and web of lies and deceit.
Bed-In New Zealand: too dark?
dhl: amazing how GW has suddenly become an international guy
katy: whoops... yeah, there was some great coming together of forces speech made by gw after they met... people are now worried (hee hee) that the whole human rights issues will now be looked aside or the us will be 'blind'....
louis: Hello Katy
Bed-In New Zealand: hello louis, Welcome to the bed-in for peace...
dhl: yeah, funny how priorties shift
(private message deleted)
dhl: although I have to admit, I've found my own priorities and values deeply challenged lately
katy: listening to flashpoints today an author from india was remarking that it's a shame that the first international meeting (post-wtc attacks) was to discuss the "war on terrorism" as opposed to productive government relations
Bed-In New Zealand: tell me more about that dhl.
Bed-In New Zealand: we have heard that gwb approval ratings are insane and that people think he is virtually a god. this, is scary, and scary that he is at the helm in these difficult times.
Bed-In New Zealand: where is our statesperson? where is our gandhi?
dhl: Well, I've been getting into a lot of arguements with the knee-jerk left lately. I'm finding the old responses just don't work for me anymore. Rushdie's article adresses this which is partly why it resonated pretty deeply for me
Bed-In New Zealand: this is an opportunity for the world to come together, not further apart.
dhl: yeah but those poll ratings are as much for the office as they are for him
dhl: if he screws up they'll disappear real fast
Bed-In New Zealand: people are looking for something to believe in in unbelievable times.
katy: yeah, a while ago i was checking out the cnn polls and they were astounding.... approval high... bombing a country which included a large number of civilian casualties... this was approved by more than 60% of the population, with about 35% agreeing to bomb w/out civilian casualties
Bed-In New Zealand: if he screws up?
dhl: people are extremely frightened
Bed-In New Zealand: yes, that is understandable.
dhl: the situation is so precarious and complex. he needs to get the world to work together and can't afford to have it fall apart
dhl: (the international colition)
Bed-In New Zealand: exactly.
Bed-In New Zealand: what about the international coalition? can this work? is it a sham?
dhl: It has to work. what's the alternative?
katy: that's another issue to consider... destabalization of governments.... now, obviously this is what we're doing... but history has shown that the us and g. britain are practically experts at destabilizing shaky governments...
dhl: yeah, that's why this is all so dangerous
dhl: fortunatly we've got a master statesman at the helm
Bed-In New Zealand: we are reading the rushdie piece - tawk amongst yourselves!
katy: and again, i want to divert the focus on religion, as it diverts the focus of the real problem of colonization and just plain ole' bullying....
dhl: yeah, but unfortunately, I think religion is part of the mix here
dhl: I'd be just as scared if Jerry Farlwell had military hardware
katy: i agree, but only to a certain extent... i'm scared of "going there" when there's so much more that needs to be examined. especially when i see how the media is attempting to explain the reasons...
katy: yow! can we say army of god!?
dhl: yeah, scary stuff.
Bed-In New Zealand: i think religion is a convenient way to package this situation.
*** Bed-In New Zealand has booted qiph ***
dhl: I'm not sure it's about packaging though
Bed-In New Zealand: and thank you quiph. (for the acrobatic images)
katy: i agree! just like patriotism is a convenient way for most americans to feel as though they are contributing...
Bed-In New Zealand: no, i'm saying that it is even more divisive and inflammatory to bring religion into it. talk about knee-jerk views, now everyone can be herded into their "camps"
dhl: how so?
katy: right (my comparison, didn't really work)
Bed-In New Zealand: we read the rushdie piece and feel that his message is a good one. we cannot let fear rule our lives even if it is scary out there and we need to protect and live our ideals and our social mores.
Bed-In New Zealand: well, it's all very complicated.
Bed-In New Zealand: fear does seem to be the problem on all sides.
Bed-In New Zealand: it always goes back to fear of the other. how can this be combated, how can people live with peace and love in their hearts instead of hate?
katy: where is the article? on your website, stretcher?
Bed-In New Zealand: i am overwhelming you (and myself) with unanswerable philisophical queries. sorry.
Bed-In New Zealand: yes, article on stretcher.org - a pop up window will appear called quick stretch - scroll to the bottom for the rushdie piece.
katy: found it...
dhl: it's all pretty deep and complex stuff
dhl: Katy go to:http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A55876-2001Oct1
katy: got it, thanks
dhl: I do think that short skirts and bacon sandwiches are worth fighting for.
Bed-In New Zealand: yes. i mean, on the other hand, well, who really wants to defend the taleban's repressive regime.
Bed-In New Zealand: civil liberties are worth fighting or, the ability to have dissent without violence, to have difference of opinion, etc...in combination with real positive social change and constructive policies.
dhl: all those things are worth fighting for
Bed-In New Zealand: yes, but fighting how?
Bed-In New Zealand: welcome back wildi. how are you?
dhl: well, hopefully in a way that hurts as few innocent people as possible. no easy answers
katy: from democracy now, they directed me to the RAWA site: http://rawa.fancymarketing.net/index.html, quite disturbing look into the taliban controlled world.
Bed-In New Zealand: we are deep into it at the moment with what is worth fighting for and how.
wildi30: not bad just got home from work
dhl: I've been to the RAWA site. really disturbing
katy: to say the least!
Bed-In New Zealand: yes, horrific. maybe that can be another positive event to come out of this all. change for the people of afghanistan. i just hope that there are some left.
wildi30: ill show ya whats worth fighting for ........................the future
dhl: well, at least GW is apparently listening to Powell and not the rabid pentagon hawks who want to carpet bomb the whole region. The response could have been way worse.
wildi30: this is my 2 year old , he deserves a future
Bed-In New Zealand: i guess that's true.
wildi30: and not to have to live in fear
Bed-In New Zealand: to dhl - wildi - what you say is definitely true. cute kid. how is the little one?
Bed-In New Zealand: right, fear produces anger and hate and violence.
Bed-In New Zealand: lack of fear allows peace.
wildi30: always in truble
Bed-In New Zealand: what is your child's name wildi? and , correct me if i am wrong, you are from iowa, right?
Bed-In New Zealand: katy is from florida and dhl is in sf.
Bed-In New Zealand: i feel like a real host now.
katy: also... my first thought on the 11th was: oh shit, the us walked out of the un summit..., of which powell was a puppy dog and obeyed quite well!
katy: i grew up in iowa
dhl: everything's about how the GW admin will deal with the international community is different now because of 9/11
katy: near des moines, a small town called carlisle
Bed-In New Zealand: yes, that is true. are people more wary now or more able to work together? what is your analysis?
dhl: want to read something really scary???
dhl: http://dailynews.yahoo.com/htx/wrtv/20011018/lo/929540_1.html (talks about a nuclear "solution")
wildi30: i know where that is only an hr west of us
katy: it seems though, that the way in which the international (western) community is behaving is by following the orders of the us... i am worried about all of the agreement and i feel that it will build the growing repressive regime (excuse my language sorta)
dhl: both-- people will work together because they need to. people will be wary for a long time. hopefully by working together trust will be rebuilt and we can all be less wary
katy: yikes.. just read the first line of the article! yeah, that's pretty darn scary
Bed-In New Zealand: don't worry about saying that. that is a valid opinion. this is one of the scary things happening that people are afraid of voicing valid fears and opinions.
dhl: yeah, that's some nasty shit they're talking
Bed-In New Zealand: i'm trying to catch up on my paltry dial-up. article still loading.
dhl: to katy
dhl: how fast is your connection out there?
Bed-In New Zealand: that would be quite a message.
katy: well, i've been quite surprised by the reaction from some of my friends... i guess it's the difference between reactive and progressive... but mainly just confusion
Bed-In New Zealand: about 33k.
Bed-In New Zealand: hi silky, Welcome to the bed-in for peace
Bed-In New Zealand: no nukes in nz luckily. they were the ones with the rainbow warrior episode.
Bed-In New Zealand: hi blips and azmike. Welcome to the bed-in for peace...
dhl: oh good!
wildi30: sorry to look naive but whats a rainbow warrior
AZMIKE: enjoyed the opportunity to visit both islands, back in the early 80's
AZMIKE: so wheres everyone from....christchurch???
AZMIKE: katy.... where you at??
Bed-In New Zealand: it's a ship belonging to greenpeace that was sabatoged by the french because they were protesting nuclear testing in the pacific.
AZMIKE: well i am not into this situation
Bed-In New Zealand: okay, well peace to you.
Bed-In New Zealand: hello santxo, Welcome to the bed-in for peace...
AZMIKE: iam retired Air Force and beleive that we need to undertake actions necessary to
AZMIKE: peace is what we all desire...
Bed-In New Zealand: yes, peace is what we all want, it is how to get there that is the question.
AZMIKE: and we must all work towards that goal, some day, and i do hope soon we maybe able to enjoy life as it was in peace
Bed-In New Zealand: at peace in the u.s. or at peace in the world?
AZMIKE: you are correct, the human species has always been fighting
Bed-In New Zealand: i am wrestling with that situation and trying to find peace with that.
AZMIKE: new zealand, austraila are very beautiful and peaceful countries
Bed-In New Zealand: where are you azmike?
AZMIKE: great people, i met many
Bed-In New Zealand: hellonice one, mucher and new cam, Welcome to the bed-in for peace
AZMIKE: origionaly New York city
Bed-In New Zealand: nz is beautiful.
AZMIKE: my home town
Bed-In New Zealand: yes, i am also from ny
AZMIKE: i enjoyed and admired it
AZMIKE: the city??
Bed-In New Zealand: right outside, near kennedy actually on long island
AZMIKE: katy.....you quiet
(private message deleted)
AZMIKE: i know it, have family members all over there
Bed-In New Zealand: blibs, where are you from?
AZMIKE: so how long are you all fasting???
Bed-In New Zealand: andy and i are fasting for 48 hours. we are already very weak and cranky and have headaches.
Bed-In New Zealand: you can see that andy is almost passed out.
katy: don't do that!
Bed-In New Zealand: no, he's just resting. we have been taking turns sleeping and chatting for the past 23 hours and well, sometimes being in bed can be exhausting.
AZMIKE: what part of NZ are you
Bed-In New Zealand: but, we wanted to alter our states to see if any "epiphanies" came through on the subject.
Bed-In New Zealand: sharing information is always a good way to break down barriers and combat fear.
Bed-In New Zealand: green eyes and yo, Welcome to the bed-in for peace...
GREEN EYES 30A: anybody's french hre?
Bed-In New Zealand: no, does anyone speak french?
Bed-In New Zealand: a little spanish
Bed-In New Zealand: where are you located green eyes?
Bed-In New Zealand: ah, paris.
dhl: that's the problem with video chat
Bed-In New Zealand: tres bien
dhl: everyone can see you smoke
wildi30: i do a little
katy: well, i SHOULD quit! :)
Bed-In New Zealand: andy and i also would love to be smoking. we are both ex smokers who casually smoke. now would be a good time!
Bed-In New Zealand: actually, we have found ourselves to be smoking more in the last month - stess, fear? both.
Bed-In New Zealand: AZMike, as an ex-airforce person, what are your views on the current us policy?
wildi30: glad i live in iowa
Bed-In New Zealand: why so wildi?
Bed-In New Zealand: is that your partner? hello from the bed-in in NZ
katy: smoking doesn't exactly fit in with my ideas... but i think it's still got a little bit of that romantic writer/artist appeal that i can't seem to shake.....
wildi30: the smoke free thing
Bed-In New Zealand: well, you gotta do what you gotta do. you have to have a few vices.
Bed-In New Zealand: is iowa smoke free?
wildi30: we still feel a little free here
wildi30: no thats my point
Bed-In New Zealand: that's excellent to hear. the more freedom and the less fear the better.
wildi30: the only fear that i have is how to pay my bills
wildi30: the rest is out of my control
katy: maybe that's another issue... bills...$ and all. things have slowed down, right?
Bed-In New Zealand: well that's a real fear, but if that's your only fear, i would be pleased.
katy: for example, i was scheduled to teach 6 classes, and after the 11th, i was told that i would be teaching only 3... several friends have been let off... companies are letting go of 1/2 of their staff... (well, here, at least)
Bed-In New Zealand: this is for recordkeeping purposes.
Bed-In New Zealand: LET'S TYPE IN CAPS FOR A BIT TO TRY TO LIMIT MY ALREADY OVERWHELMING CONFUSION. OKAY?
dhl: yeah the economy is tanking fast
katy: hey, david, is your tape running out?
dhl: YEAH LET'S YELL AT EACH OTHER!!~!!
Bed-In New Zealand: YEAH!
katy: which brings me to another issue... a more personal one... funding for the arts, education, etc... what's to become of that whole mess?
wildi30: the co i work for has dubled our work force in the past 3 mo
dhl: I'n not taping but if I don't have a tape in there you see the annoying blinking thing
dhl: where do U work?
Bed-In New Zealand: THAT'S ANOTHER TOPIC COMPLETELY THAT I DON'T EVEN FEEL CAPABLE OF DISCUSSING AT THIS POINT.
Bed-In New Zealand: BUT THE QUESTION OF WHAT CAN ARTISTS DO NOW, IS INTERESTING.
wildi30: we produce the #2 line of farm eq in the U.S.
dhl: YOU WERE'NT KIDDING ABOUT ALL CAPS...
katy: where's the epiphany!?
katy: I KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN, THOUGH, IT SEEMS AS THOUGH THERE ARE SO MANY ASPECTS OF WHICH TO TOUCH UPON
wildi30: wanna bet
dhl: crop dusters are popular I hear
Bed-In New Zealand: okay, i'll calm the caps down, unless we all do it it is too jarring.
Bed-In New Zealand: must find the humour in these humourless times.
Bed-In New Zealand: room pan everybody!
dhl: very nice!
Bed-In New Zealand: this is an artwork i have done influenced by maori cloaks. you cant really see it very well.
dhl: room pan
Bed-In New Zealand: my table
katy: i feel as though this can work as a catalyst... seeing that all of these topics apply... maybe it'll help bring them into the forefront at the same time that it is getting buried (am i making sense?) (don't know how you do it andy and amy!)
Bed-In New Zealand: whoa, motion sickness.
wildi30: now every one spin
dhl: great table
Bed-In New Zealand: thanks dave.
Bed-In New Zealand: okay, back to business.
Bed-In New Zealand: we are hungry.
dhl: can we see more of the outdoors?
wildi30: i could show ya photos i took
Bed-In New Zealand: great. photos of?
Bed-In New Zealand: this is what people, or at least artists turn to, images, events, ways of finding something to believe in whether it be truth, beauty, short skirts, bacon sandwiches, freedom of speech, often all of the above. (references to the rushdie article from before)
wildi30: have my own dark room
dhl: sushi 4 amy (showing his sushi on the web-cam)
Bed-In New Zealand: now that hurt dave, although andy and i have been making our own sushi lately.
Bed-In New Zealand: yum, is that from webesushi? or blowfish?
Bed-In New Zealand: pad is looking good.
wildi30: no 35mm & portrate
Bed-In New Zealand: wildi - you are multi-talented. b/w photography is great, the darkroom can be so magical.
Bed-In New Zealand: okay, more of the outside
Bed-In New Zealand: katy? room pan?
wildi30: me got to third place in an internatinal photo contest
Bed-In New Zealand: right on wildi!
katy: tried to get one of the cats in there.....
wildi30: be right back
Bed-In New Zealand: as they say here, good on ya mate.
katy: loud and clear (well sorta) and thanks! that was my kitty latrell
katy: david, you were a bit too loud!
Bed-In New Zealand: who was that speaking? it was a bit garbled?
dhl: yeah that happens all the time
katy: no luck with the pic, willow
dhl: me, amy. it comes out garbled more often then not. that was the first time I could understand you though.
Bed-In New Zealand: so, what's the next topic or item to be dissected?
Bed-In New Zealand: chewed up and spit out?
katy: okay, for a little more excitement... i can find my other cat, oatmeal...
Bed-In New Zealand: the birds are chirping here.
Bed-In New Zealand: okay, i need to stretch a bit, another cutie! here's andy at the keyboard now.
dhl: what time is it out there?
Bed-In New Zealand: hello, i'm back
Bed-In New Zealand: andy that is
wildi30: ok im back
Bed-In New Zealand: dave, your picture looks good, must be cos youre on a camcorder
dhl: Hi Andy, and welcome Jeff
dhl: yeah good camera and DSL bandwidth
katy: sorry if slow to respond... am looking around for a bit on the web.... will stay connected though.
dhl: Greetings Jeff. Amy and Andy are having a Bed-In for peace. What's Canada's view of the current global situation?
Bed-In New Zealand: sorry guys, i pasted a huge amount of text into my chat window and had to delete piece by piece, so what were we saying?
wildi30: no just a hoby gon rong
katy: since we've got the canada edge, what say you about sunera thobani?
Bed-In New Zealand: hi star from hawai, welcome back
Bed-In New Zealand: what does anyone think about fasting?
dhl: yeah, what is sunera thobani
Bed-In New Zealand: i was trying to think why we added that to the bed-in
Bed-In New Zealand: sorry, who's sunera thobani?
katy: check out the site for the thobani info...
wildi30: Id get too hungry
dhl: yeah andy what's up with the fasting?
Bed-In New Zealand: I think it has something to do with masochism
dhl: it's really bad out there right now
Bed-In New Zealand: wanting to suffer, but also not wanting to think about eating - it takes up a lot of our time
katy: i think that fasting is a good way to protest, however, i feel that in order for it to be effective it has to get coverage. and from looking at your site, i see that you are accustomed to that procedure (process art as action?)
wildi30: where are ya dhl i think i missed that
Bed-In New Zealand: we already got a front page spot in the local paper
dhl: San Francisco
Bed-In New Zealand: i'll show it to you.. hang on
wildi30: ok cool
dhl: do you get juice?
dhl: I could probably live on odwalla for 48 hours
katy: that's great!
dhl: cool andy
wildi30: i see it said artist what is your medium
Bed-In New Zealand: no juice, just water
Bed-In New Zealand: it's also something to do with passive resistance in the ghandi tradition
Bed-In New Zealand: lying in bed is pretty passive in some ways but pretty powerful in others
Bed-In New Zealand: we are using the word, which is more pwerful than the sword I believe
dhl: send them to Berkeley
katy: what does this mean to you if you separate it into a global view and a personal view and how do the two intertwine (you don't have to answer it all in one fell swoop!)
Bed-In New Zealand: i'm not getting azmike - strange
dhl: do you both have laptops in NZ?
Bed-In New Zealand: katy - not sure how to answer your question
Bed-In New Zealand: bascially, I'm an anarchist
katy: yeah, it's a pretty insane question to ask, meaning a lot could be said... so don't worry about it for now!
Bed-In New Zealand: and believe that society could be constructed from the ground up - from day to day actions without a top down hierarchy
Bed-In New Zealand: perhaps its utopian, but if we all concentrated on having good day to day interactions we wouldn't need government
dhl: yeah but human nature precludes that it seems.
Bed-In New Zealand: that's why i'm a utopian - its one of the few benefits of being an artist
Bed-In New Zealand: you can get away with it
katy: i was thinking along the lines of fasting... what it means on a global scale and what it means to you personally... masochism as global suffering and personal pain (i'm not being much more clear, i'm afraid)
Bed-In New Zealand: ok, sorry, i went off on a tangent....
dhl: is that you amy?
Bed-In New Zealand: no its andy
Bed-In New Zealand: i wish i could smoke, it would cut the hunger
dhl: sounds like ur underwater
Bed-In New Zealand: my god, we are!
dhl: not for long
AZMIKE: an airdrop of mines could assist
AleX: Hi everybody
dhl: take speed then stay awake in bed
wildi30: hay i gota go ive been up over36 hrs now so see ya
AZMIKE: later wildi
Bed-In New Zealand: bye wildi, come by again!
Bed-In New Zealand: alex, Welcome to the bed-in for peace...
katy: has anybody checked out the sunera thobani article yet? (figured it could be a bit more to discuss) http://www.drudgereport.com/flash.htm
dhl: was that the one about arafat?
Bed-In New Zealand: i'm reading it now, i'll be back
katy: she's a feminist who made a public speech about the us and it's policies.... met with a ton of criticism.
dhl: I heard about that. It's not at that URL anymore.
AZMIKE: shes not the one in mass. usa ?
Bed-In New Zealand: there's just a summary
Funny: hello Katy
katy: i believe the canadian gov. even publicly condemned her
dhl: I think she has every right to say what she did, but I would point her to the Rushdie essay.
AZMIKE: 1st amendment stuff
Bed-In New Zealand: funny, Welcome to the bed-in for peace
AZMIKE: do you think her opinions would alter if she became a victim of terrorists?
Funny: well hi to everyone !
dhl: yep, that's what it's all about. At the same time I'm not really interested in hearing the knee-jerk left blame the US for 9/11
Funny: i'm from Montreal (Canada )
AZMIKE: we will have to locate and check the article'
AZMIKE: hows things in canada
katy: well, got a link to her response to the criticism http://vancouver.tao.ca/vancouver02009.html
AZMIKE: tucson, arizona
Funny: where r you from ?
AZMIKE: good night all.....perhaps another time...
katy: good night
AZMIKE: enjoyed this...have not done this in long time, fingers got a workout
Funny: hey i'm new here !
Funny: pretty hard to follow !
Bed-In New Zealand: ok you guys leaving?
Bed-In New Zealand: oh just azmike
Bed-In New Zealand: by az
Bed-In New Zealand: hi pat, Welcome to the bed-in for peace
c'est moi: hy
katy: grab some food for a bit... will stay connected though
dhl: she seems to have a chip on her shoulder
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pat: my cam is aout
Bed-In New Zealand: hello c'est moi, Welcome to the bed-in for peace...
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pat: do you speak french?
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Bed-In New Zealand: funny, where are you from?
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Bed-In New Zealand: pat - vous parlez seulement francais?
katy: i figure, the timing is just right... so yeah, expect the backlash... but i think that the only way the real issues can be addressed is by presenting them to the public and especially during times of 'crisis'.
Funny: hello room
Bed-In New Zealand: hello funny!!!
Funny: it works
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katy: a lot of the fracturing seems happen when the left remains as liberals, meaning, those that bery often become wishy washy (god, i'm not making much sense at this point so just bear with me)
dhl: yeah but it needs to be done in such a way that the public can empathize, understand and learn. I think she blew it .
dhl: I get what you mean
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dhl: I mean, you can't talk the way she did to people who are in mourning and expect them to join the cause
katy: i guess that that's the problem, though: where do you draw the line and when does action become so submerged in the mainstream rhetoric that it no longer works against the mainstream?
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katy: i personally don't know, cause i've never done it?
katy: i've always had the safegaurded world of somewhat like-minded friends...
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dhl: I don't know either. I think it's difficult
katy: so i've got some guilt to deal with along those lines....
dhl: I think it's important for people to educate themselves and think critically for themselves