TOPICS discussed include: fear in NY, cellular automata and change, web as open medium, public v private content, problem of ego, fasting, nature of online communication, CDC, living for the moment, anthrax, fear as visious cricle, nature of justice
NYC:ToniSant: i'd like to introduce you to a good friend of mine
Bed-In New Zealand: sure
NYC:ToniSant: he has just joined us from Malta
NYC:ToniSant: his nick is awrata
awrata: hello everybody...
NYC:ToniSant: he doesn't have a webcam.
jaceee: at least I didn't call you an aussie and you were a kwi!
Bed-In New Zealand: no worries
jaceee: greetings awrata
Bed-In New Zealand: hi there
awrata: hi jaceee
jaceee: six months residency, that's not bad...
NYC:ToniSant: jaceee has been very very quiet this whole time.
awrata: hello New Zealand
Bed-In New Zealand: hello malta
NYC:ToniSant: have you spoken with jaceee at any point andy?
Bed-In New Zealand: quite a lot, he's been here since the start nearly...
Bed-In New Zealand: he goes off for lunch and swims and comes back
Bed-In New Zealand: he's from Finland
NYC:ToniSant: finland! wow!
jaceee: one funky thing about ivisit, because of differing firewall situations with different ISP's sometimes there will be poeple in the same room who can't see each other
jaceee: I see this now -- you are talking to an invisible person sometimes...
jaceee: like now, I see no malta!
Bed-In New Zealand: like a smokey bar
jaceee: typical glitch
NYC:ToniSant: are you expecting a lot of people to show up for this event?
jaceee: speaking of which I think I will be heading to the local Irish pub for a Guiness in an hour or so...
jaceee: gettin thirsty
Bed-In New Zealand: i've no idea who' going to show up. it gets dificult to deal with more than 4 or 5 people unless jc has some advice...
jaceee: well, just have to multi-task...
NYC:ToniSant: would you like to see more people here?
jaceee: and focus attention on the Other, despite the massive mediation happening -- keyboard, bad video, 20000 of cable and fiber optic and satellite, IP protocols, monitors, and language
jaceee: it is possible to make electric contact given the right degree of focus and attention
Bed-In New Zealand: i would like to see a few more people, oh COCAIN has just shown up...
C O C A I N: yeah was wondering what being discussed
Bed-In New Zealand: but the main thing is to have some good discussion about possibilities for alternatives to solving problems with violence
jaceee: sartin gan open dialogue with the Other is a place to start,,,
jaceee: starting, sorry
Bed-In New Zealand: the Other being...
jaceee: the Other being any other human being that one comes across in life...
Bed-In New Zealand: awrata - what do you do in Malta?
NYC:ToniSant: i'm with you in terms of getting meaningful discussions
jaceee: Like the big prob in the US is a ravenous homophobia -- which doesn't take anyone anywhere 'cept to the grave
NYC:ToniSant: here we go!
jaceee: facing the Other is a fearful business, but we have to get over the fear, and open up to each other
Bed-In New Zealand: in terms of nos. of people - we don't xpect to change the world with this one event....
Bed-In New Zealand: ..but hope to plant a seed
Bed-In New Zealand: ... this is a concept of political action...
Bed-In New Zealand: which others may follow
NYC:ToniSant: i see that your idea of change works on micro/macro levels
jaceee: hey, I am convinced that mass action is a straw dog, waiting to be consumed in the fires of war
jaceee: one-to-one is the site of the revolution
NYC:ToniSant: and this brings me back to the performance frame i was telling you about earlier.
awrata: sorry Bed-In New Zealand... was messing around with iVisit...
Bed-In New Zealand: yes, i read a lot about cellular automata
Bed-In New Zealand: and complexity
jaceee: in the act you are effecting now, ...
awrata: I am an on-line content producer...
jaceee: well, if you believe in a Quantu model for the world
NYC:ToniSant: i should tell you that awrata and i work together
Bed-In New Zealand: multi-threaded conversations
jaceee: any deflection in the energy field of the universe will be instantaneously felt EVERY WHERE ESE
Bed-In New Zealand: at NYU
jaceee: Quantum, that is...
NYC:ToniSant: he's in malta
NYC:ToniSant: i'm in NY
jaceee: yup, dig it.
Bed-In New Zealand: the butterfly effect
NYC:ToniSant: but we collaborate online all the time
jaceee: we are linked across physically massive barriers
jaceee: but are able to affect each other...
NYC:ToniSant: he's being very "formal" in describing what he does actually.
jaceee: I talk with my students about such topics regularly
Bed-In New Zealand: what kind of collaborations?
NYC:ToniSant: in many ways, and among other things, he is a journalist.
NYC:ToniSant: step one:
NYC:ToniSant: have a look at: http://www.tonisant.com/
jaceee: a collab may take ANY form... any exchange of living energies
Bed-In New Zealand: ok
awrata: Oh... that's better NewYorkCity...
awrata: better shot...
NYC:ToniSant: we create online content
jaceee: across and mediated distance large or small
jaceee: any, sorry
NYC:ToniSant: http://www.tonisant.com/ is my personal website...
NYC:ToniSant: that's not where we collaborate really.
NYC:ToniSant: we run something we call the maltamedia online network
Bed-In New Zealand: like that!
NYC:ToniSant: awrata works on it full-time from malta.
Bed-In New Zealand: i got the site up
NYC:ToniSant: you can enter that world at http://www.maltamedia.com
NYC:ToniSant: we run an independent information source for and about malta
Bed-In New Zealand: i don't know much about malta - is it a separate nation?
NYC:ToniSant: most (if not all) information sources in malta are either run by politicians/government/church or big-time commercial interests
jaceee: actually, the title of the work -- bed-in is perversely good in this forum... many will pass through...
NYC:ToniSant: it's a tiny island nation in the mediterranean
NYC:ToniSant: that's where i'm originally from.
NYC:ToniSant: i left many years ago...and have lived in NYC for the past several years.
NYC:ToniSant: at MaltaMedia we've been giving a maltese perspective on 9/11 and the so-called war on terrorism.
Bed-In New Zealand: is that really cocain?
NYC:ToniSant: i've been doing regular webcasts in maltese on the site.
Bed-In New Zealand: that sounds great. how do you do that, technically
NYC:ToniSant: the webcast?
Bed-In New Zealand: yes
NYC:ToniSant: it's just an audio webcast...
NYC:ToniSant: so i simply record my voice to the hard disk on my PC...
NYC:ToniSant: and then encode it for the web using RealProducer
Bed-In New Zealand: OK, i thought you meant live..
NYC:ToniSant: when it's done i upload it to one of our webservers
jaceee: man, frustrating -- I can't see the other's text... only yours Andy...
NYC:ToniSant: it's available on demand the whole time...
Bed-In New Zealand: i'm interested to read the articles on the site ...
NYC:ToniSant: so anyone can listen to what i had to say three weeks ago or just last week whenever they please.
NYC:ToniSant: the articles are in english...the webcasts are in maltese.
jaceee: what site?
Bed-In New Zealand: maltamedia
jaceee: can you paste the URL -- I can't see it unless it's from you...
awrata: ppl.. i gotta leave you now... off to the office... i'll try to reconnect from there (if i manage to get past the firewall
Bed-In New Zealand: maltamedia.com
Bed-In New Zealand: see you, thanks for dropping by...
NYC:ToniSant: see you later awrata...you can email me when you get there.
NYC:ToniSant: c u
awrata: bye everyone!
(removed marker text)
NYC:ToniSant: chapter 5? what's that?
Bed-In New Zealand: i'm saving the conversations - its just a marker
NYC:ToniSant: i c
NYC:ToniSant: how often do you save?
jaceee: right... I've logged everything so far, and I can email something to you later when it's over... for the record...
Bed-In New Zealand: ok - do you think anyone will mind, or is this public record
NYC:ToniSant: that's an interesting question!
NYC:ToniSant: this is an event you organized...
NYC:ToniSant: i would say you "own" this event.
NYC:ToniSant: still...people are entitled to their privacy.
NYC:ToniSant: you can use whatever happens here for your own private ends, i guess...
jaceee: well, wouldn't worry about that... no court has tested such a concept, and it will surely be far in the future before they do...
Bed-In New Zealand: yes, people can always use false names
jaceee: unless Dick Cheney is logged in...
Bed-In New Zealand: i was hoping for Bush
jaceee: well, it is a volunteer public forum...
NYC:ToniSant: however, if you plan to profit in anyway from anything someone else says or does here...i suppose getting their permission would be a good idea
NYC:ToniSant: the online world is a jungle.
Bed-In New Zealand: yes, no chance of that tho' profit i mean
NYC:ToniSant: still there are some "rules" in this jungle
jaceee: are you kidding he wouldnt really be able to sit and talk with a total stranger
jaceee: he'd be terrified.
NYC:ToniSant: i would tend to agree with you about profit...
NYC:ToniSant: but how about this for a scenario...
jaceee: to speak the truth
NYC:ToniSant: i'm writing a book about what i call the open web...
jaceee: (listening to Alice's Restaurant)...
NYC:ToniSant: that is to say i'm interested in creating awareness about keeping the web an open medium for people like you and me to use without a corporate/commercial intermediary.
Bed-In New Zealand: right on!
Bed-In New Zealand: won't ivisit be flooding us with ads soon?
Bed-In New Zealand: like google does now subtly
NYC:ToniSant: other media (radio/TV mainly) have been taken on by corporate/commercial interests and closed down from being two-way media to one-way media...the same can happen to the web.
jaceee: no, there's nothing like that (yet) with ivisit
NYC:ToniSant: here's the thing...
NYC:ToniSant: ivisit or google are NOT the web...they're just a tiny part of it.
jaceee: don't know their business plan, but they have been quite good about that so far
NYC:ToniSant: the trick is to make sure that no legislation is passed that will exclude people like you and me from operating away from the corporate/commercial interests.
Bed-In New Zealand: peer to peer computing seems a good model
NYC:ToniSant: and still have the same potential audience as we have now.
NYC:ToniSant: yes...P2P is key...
NYC:ToniSant: look at the whole napster fiasco!
NYC:ToniSant: is that a sign of things to come?
NYC:ToniSant: to get back to my point...
jaceee: ivisit is much better than netmeeting -- they don't get you by the balls like microsoft
NYC:ToniSant: i'm writing this book...
jaceee: and its more stable
NYC:ToniSant: and i may want to write about this event in the book...
jaceee: I just turned my bro onto it last weekend -- he was always glued to netmeeting
NYC:ToniSant: do i need anyone's permission to reproduce anything that i see/read/hear here?
Bed-In New Zealand: not mine
NYC:ToniSant: i knew you'd say that!
NYC:ToniSant: but if i insist that you "own" this event than if i have clearance from you to do what i please (for my book) with whatever happens here...
NYC:ToniSant: than no one should be able to say anything about "ownership" of text/sound/images that appear here.
NYC:ToniSant: i'm only discussing this cause you brought it up.
jaceee: your's isn't stable -- you only went off line once..
NYC:ToniSant: what i'd really like to discuss with you is the performance component of your ber-in.
NYC:ToniSant: sorry bed-in!
NYC:ToniSant: but maybe i should wait for amy to wake up later.
Bed-In New Zealand: well, as long as you mention us.....
Bed-In New Zealand: yes, that would be good
NYC:ToniSant: how can i not mention you? this is *your* event!!
Bed-In New Zealand: we'll be here for two days
NYC:ToniSant: see how i frame the event on my personal website: http://www.tonisant.com
NYC:ToniSant: it is clearly your event that i am joining here.
NYC:ToniSant: andy and amy organized a bed-in.
NYC:ToniSant: they chose the time.
NYC:ToniSant: they chose the location.
Bed-In New Zealand: well in many ways i would like to look upon this, and all other events, as productions of society
NYC:ToniSant: they chose the setting/context.
Bed-In New Zealand: ego always gets in the way of these utopian visions
NYC:ToniSant: what do you mean by productions of society?
NYC:ToniSant: ego is always a part of everything...even enlightenment!
Bed-In New Zealand: well, thats all i am, plus my genes
NYC:ToniSant: i need to step away for a minute...nature calls!
Bed-In New Zealand: to die as egos and be born again in the swarm, not separate and self hynotised, but separate yet united (Henry Miller)
NYC:ToniSant: miller! great writer.
NYC:ToniSant: i see that amy is awake.
jaceee: GOODMORNING AMY!
jaceee: whoops, the camera
NYC:ToniSant: what time is it now at your place?
Bed-In New Zealand: good morning jacee, hello nyc, give me a minute to catch up with you guys.
NYC:ToniSant: andy and i have been getting acquainted for the past couple of hours or so.
jaceee: hey so you are teaching in the Bay Area?
jaceee: the zombie effect is fetching....
Bed-In New Zealand: okay, so there is much to see. i have only scratched the surface.
jaceee: better not reflect, just be here now...
Bed-In New Zealand: right you are
jaceee: what time is it there anyway?
Bed-In New Zealand: reflection can lead to melancholy, can lead to....it is 3:30 here now.
jaceee: oh, the deep nnight
chaos: its here16:25
jaceee: I remember doing a performance
jaceee: where I opened my apartment for two weeks
jaceee: 24 hours a day
jaceee: for folks to come by
Bed-In New Zealand: yeah, did you sleep at all, when and how?
jaceee: after a few days, I just didn't try to DO anything, just go with the flow
jaceee: sometime yes, sometimes not
jaceee: folks could and did arrive at all hours
Bed-In New Zealand: hmmm.
jaceee: doing one thing or another, partying, etc etc
jaceee: but I liked the duration part of it
jaceee: the length of time estalished a different state of being -- I'm sure the same will happen with you to
Bed-In New Zealand: two weeks is a long time of being on call.
jaceee: so's 48 hours...
jaceee: and you are fasting, right*
jaceee: I was consuming lots of different things... along with visitors
Bed-In New Zealand: yes, although i am allowing myself water, andy, i believe may be a "purist" about that.
jaceee: it will be a consciousness shifting happening...
jaceee: so, you are teaching in SF?
NYC:ToniSant: it looks like someone is having a private conversation with you...and you're responding to the rest of us.
Bed-In New Zealand: yes, that is definitly part of our performative aspect, how fasting affects the situation.
NYC:ToniSant: there the wonderful P-word!! :-)
NYC:ToniSant: i think you need to be mentally ready to fast...don't you?
Bed-In New Zealand: and, yes, i teach in sf. i have taught at sf state and adults at the sfart institute as well as creating my own after-school program for "at-risk" teens.
jaceee: uh-huh, cool
(removed private text from Jazz)
Bed-In New Zealand: you do have to be mentally ready to fast. it does not work any other way
jaceee: yeah, and focussed...
NYC:ToniSant: that's exactly how i feel...
NYC:ToniSant: i only heard about your bed-in and fast two days ago and there wasn't enough time for me to prepare...i'd have loved to fast with you
Bed-In New Zealand: another half naked visitor just came through, okay, he's moved on.
NYC:ToniSant: plenty of those on iVisit!
jaceee: yeah, it's silly... but the name of the room will draw even more porn-surfers...
jaceee: in a way it's good for the experimental value
jaceee: that it introduces to the medium
jaceee: but it is sad that there are so many lonely people out there...
Bed-In New Zealand: it is true you have to mentally prepare, we do hope to get some fast-ees as well as fast supporters like you two, although disconnected in space, i think that going through the same "deprivation" would be connective on a bodily level.
jaceee: there was a project three years ago -- world wide simultaneously dance
jaceee: with ivisit that was great
NYC:ToniSant: is andy asleep now?
Bed-In New Zealand: we are learning about the ivisit visitors, and it is sad that so many people are trying to connect in a real human way on this impersonal medium.
Bed-In New Zealand: yes, andy is taking a bit of a rest now.
jaceee: on the physical plane of connectedness
NYC:ToniSant: well...we can try to make it better.
jaceee: well, I don't think it is impersonal ´-- it's just another kind of mediation standing between two people
NYC:ToniSant: i was telling andy earlier that i'd like to have a conversation with the two of you about what you're doing...
NYC:ToniSant: as a performance.
NYC:ToniSant: i study and teach about performance in NY
jaceee: once you "get used to it" it is a very powerful medium of communications
NYC:ToniSant: i was also telling andy that i'm looking forward to spend as much time as possible with the two of you over this weekend.
jaceee: as "un-natural" as the telephone, letters, painting and every other form of tele-presence...
Bed-In New Zealand: whoa, so much to respond to and here ii have just arisen. yes, it is true that it is just another mediation between people (i will tell you about another project i am doing in this vein later) interesting, how would that
jaceee: face-to-face just has higher band-width -- the full body connection -- a wide electromagnetic spectrum
Bed-In New Zealand: look like, or rather, great, we look forward to a real dialogue with you
NYC:ToniSant: i'll still be here later...so no need to do anything now.
Bed-In New Zealand: true but it does take awhile to process the new
NYC:ToniSant: when do you think both you and andy will be alert and awake for this sort of thing?
Bed-In New Zealand: what time is it there now?
jaceee: (fast typing is a learned skill with this medium, along with carpal tunnel...)
jaceee: it's 1745 and dark already
jaceee: snowed today
Bed-In New Zealand: i think andy will be out for a few hours, perhaps when it is light here we will both be "alert"
jaceee: wind from the Barents Sea, I'm not far from Murmansk
NYC:ToniSant: it's 1045am in NYC
NYC:ToniSant: is it the middle of the night there?
Bed-In New Zealand: do you live near nyu? it must be super intense living in nyc right now, talk about a 24 hour 2 week performance
jaceee: t's okay to veg... I know I am thinking fast in the moment... and about to head out. I will leave the machine idling all night, but will check in with you tomorrow...
NYC:ToniSant: i work at NYU
Bed-In New Zealand: yes, it is 3:49 here
NYC:ToniSant: i live about 6 miles away from campus
Bed-In New Zealand: okay jacee, see you later
NYC:ToniSant: i didn't realize it was the middle of the night at your end
jaceee: (another glitch with ivisit -- I told Andy about -- often some of the people in a room may not see each other or each other's text...)
jaceee: like I can't see NYC's text at all...
NYC:ToniSant: i was telling andy about all this earlier.
Bed-In New Zealand: new zealand can sometimes really be at the ends of the earth.
NYC:ToniSant: maybe i should just let you mellow out for the next few hours...and then we'll get "heavy" after your sunrise. how's that?
Bed-In New Zealand: that's so strange how i can be holding a conversation with both of you and you are not interacting at all, i thought that was part of the program that visitors would interact as well?
Bed-In New Zealand: toni, can you see jaceee's text?
jaceee: well, there are technical glitches that prevent that on occasion, due to firewall configs
Bed-In New Zealand: that's fine toni, i'm sure you must have some other things to attend to
jaceee: I can't see Toni's
jaceee: it happens
Bed-In New Zealand: who's trying to talk to us? maximus is that you?
NYC:ToniSant: i can't see jaceee's text.
Bed-In New Zealand: well, we all have walls that sometimes prevent us from interacting.
NYC:ToniSant: i haven't tried to use the audio yet...but i will later.
NYC:ToniSant: right you are!
NYC:ToniSant: i'd like to share a little something with you in a second...
Bed-In New Zealand: that actually must add another level to the discussion, seeing a thread of a conversation without the origin.
NYC:ToniSant: have a quick look at this: http://www.tonisant.com/
jaceee: okay, I'm outta here...
jaceee: see you tomorrow
NYC:ToniSant: i see that your audio is working!
Bed-In New Zealand: good, so everyone can hear the audio - maybe that is the missing link for this program. let's see, getting back to the other project i am doing to break down the walls (so to speak) of the medium is holding dinner salons, or really dinner parties and discu
Bed-In New Zealand: whoops, another thread of conversation. anyway, broadcast the dinner and discussion on the internet as if you were a member of the intimate dinner party.
NYC:ToniSant: are you planning on sleeping now?
Bed-In New Zealand: i could (i always can sleep) or i can continue, whatever.
NYC:ToniSant: or have you and andy agreed that one of you should always be awake?
NYC:ToniSant: if you want to sleep i'll leave you in peace.
Bed-In New Zealand: well we discussed that option and are just going with the flow at this point and crashing when need be. it does seem that as long as we are able to have one person be awake and "moderating" the event would be a good idea.
NYC:ToniSant: i c
Bed-In New Zealand: it's no problem, and people keep appearing all of the time, dropping in, out, looking confused, or....
NYC:ToniSant: did you have a look at http://www.tonisant.com/ ?
Bed-In New Zealand: another confused looking boy hightailing it out of the bed-in.
Bed-In New Zealand: no, i will look now.
NYC:ToniSant: i showed this to andy already.
NYC:ToniSant: hello maximus
Maximus: Atlanta, GA here
NYC:ToniSant: we're on the same timezone man!
Maximus: where is your cam man
NYC:ToniSant: right here! :-)
NYC:ToniSant: i'm kinda giving it a rest
Maximus: don't see you
Maximus: Amy. How are you
Bed-In New Zealand: wow, that's awesome toni, so great to see the images up in another location next to each other, does seem to bring the performance somewhere else.
Bed-In New Zealand: hello maximus, i am fine, a bit tired. how are you?
NYC:ToniSant: that's just the beginning amy! there's lots more where that came from!
Maximus: Well today. Just starting my day
NYC:ToniSant: is the situation as tense in atlanta as it is in NYC?
Bed-In New Zealand: yes, tell me what it is like day to day these days on the east coast of the usa.
Maximus: CDC is Atlanta. There is a lot of activity there which is positive for the nation's health.
Maximus: Everyone is still in a state of heightened awareness.
Maximus: CDC is in Atlanta I mean
Maximus: Every day is a new and cherished day.
Bed-In New Zealand: right. must be buzzing there.
NYC:ToniSant: at least you guys have been spared from the anthrax so far...i'm surprised that CNN didn't get one of those media envelops that ABC, NBC and CBS got here.
Bed-In New Zealand: has it made you cherish each day more personally?
Bed-In New Zealand: or filled you with dread?
NYC:ToniSant: i cherish every second!!
NYC:ToniSant: but i'm also afraid...
NYC:ToniSant: afraid that there will be more suffering for innocent people.
NYC:ToniSant: and i don't just mean in NYC
Maximus: Yes it has. I make the best of every moment I spend with family, friends or new acquaintances.
Bed-In New Zealand: are you north or south of nyu? i believe all new yorkers have been discussing this for over a month now, but where were you on 9/11?
Maximus: Everything has heigthened sensitivity.
NYC:ToniSant: i was on my way to NYU...
NYC:ToniSant: i live across the river from manhattan...
NYC:ToniSant: i actually never made it into manhattan that day
Maximus: I left NYC on that Sunday 2 days before. I was there for fashion week.
NYC:ToniSant: but many of my students were evacuated from their dorms.
Bed-In New Zealand: yes, i have been wrestling with feelings of sadness and with fear and with disgust with the presence of evil. mostly trying to come to terms with that.
Bed-In New Zealand: i'm trying to connect with the positve in some way, like people making the most of what is here and now.
Maximus: We all have been wrestling with those thoughts. It's almost like a movie.
Bed-In New Zealand: i do feel a bit isolated here from the havoc there and appreciate your personal accounts. i am originally from NY.
NYC:ToniSant: really? where abouts in NY?
Maximus: We have to make the most of the present but we must also prepare for the future too.
NYC:ToniSant: that's right max...but unfortunately the future doesn't look so bright right now.
Bed-In New Zealand: how are you doing that?
NYC:ToniSant: doing what?
Bed-In New Zealand: asking maximus how he is preparing for the future.
NYC:ToniSant: i c
Bed-In New Zealand: much commotion of people logging on and off the guest list
Bed-In New Zealand: how can we brighten the future, toni? at least so we can continue to try to prepare for it?
Maximus: Continuing with normal daily routine. Work, saving, entertainment, and travel.
Bed-In New Zealand: are you planning to travel somewhere soon?
Bed-In New Zealand: so, you too can see each other's text? right?
Bed-In New Zealand: it's raining here now, actually it rains here quite a bit.
Maximus: I am travelling now. I live in Maryland between Baltimore and Washington. I drove to New Orleans, LA. for a convention. I stopped a couple times to visit friends. Right now I am stopped over visiting my goddaughters.
NYC:ToniSant: i feel like i've lost control over what happens around me in the immediate future.
Bed-In New Zealand: are you trying the audio toni? i couldn't understand if you were speaking.
NYC:ToniSant: no. i haven't touched the audio yet.
Maximus: I leave for Maryland tomorrow morning
NYC:ToniSant: are you flying to Maryland?
Bed-In New Zealand: it does feel different re: planning for the future. andy and i can barely think a month ahead.
Bed-In New Zealand: maximus, were you trying the audio?
Maximus: No. I drove down to NO (New Orleans) on this trip so I'll be driving back. I still feel uneasy abou flying.
Bed-In New Zealand: yes. understandable. you say you are travelling for work, right? what do you do max? fashion you say?
NYC:ToniSant: i can understand that!
Bed-In New Zealand: understand, understand, understand, perhaps this is bringing people closer together.
Bed-In New Zealand: trying so desperately to find "the good"
Maximus: No not fashion. I was there to enjoy an invite to a designer's sprin 2002 collection. I am in healthcare.
Bed-In New Zealand: busy intense time for you i am sure (as for most).
Maximus: I am a physician so I understand the public's anxiety about anthrax. However the cutaneous form is easily succesfully treated.
Maximus: The inhaled form is potentially very lethal.
Bed-In New Zealand: sorry, distracted by a giant moth circling me. very scary stuff this anthrax. what are your patients saying?
Bed-In New Zealand: toni - what's the anthrax mood in nyc right now? how are your students handling it?
Bed-In New Zealand: hello rootsmang1. Welcome to the bed-in for peace. We are fasting and meditating for 48 hours on world peace. Thank you for participating. We would like to hear from you about the current global situation in some way.
Maximus: The flu is deadlier than anthrax because of the way it is spread. The flu spreads from person to person
Bed-In New Zealand: rootsmang 1 gone i see, so you have perspective
NYC:ToniSant: max, i keep hearing and reading that anthrax is not contagious from one person to another...but can it be inhaled from a person who's carrying it?
NYC:ToniSant: looks like we lost everyone there for a moment.
Bed-In New Zealand: i keep thinking about my dad's reaction, ever the pessimist. he said that at least it isn't ebola. or maybe that's the optimist talking. as if that matters.
NYC:ToniSant: where does your dad live?
Bed-In New Zealand: we seem to have lost maximus, are you there max?
Bed-In New Zealand: my dad lives in fla, boca raton, actually, where as i'm sure you know anthrax was first reported.
NYC:ToniSant: wow! poor guy!
NYC:ToniSant: i'm sure it was as tense there as it is here about the anthrax!
Bed-In New Zealand: yes.
Bed-In New Zealand: what is the latest on that?
NYC:ToniSant: well...it keeps cropping up in new places...
NYC:ToniSant: yesterday one of dan rather's assistants got it!
NYC:ToniSant: or rather this was reported yesterday...
NYC:ToniSant: they said it happened a couple of weeks ago!
Bed-In New Zealand: you must be worried? is everyone fearful? wow. scary, scary, scary.
NYC:ToniSant: i am quite worried...
NYC:ToniSant: but not panicing.
NYC:ToniSant: my students are really freaked out!
Bed-In New Zealand: that's good.
Bed-In New Zealand: i can imagine!
Bed-In New Zealand: therapists must be overwhelmed at this point.
NYC:ToniSant: the thing with therapists is...
Bed-In New Zealand: have you used ivistit before toni?
NYC:ToniSant: they're going through all this themselves too!! aren't they?
Bed-In New Zealand: yes, that is a lot of anxiety for them to hold.
NYC:ToniSant: i've never used ivisit before.
NYC:ToniSant: but my students have used it for a project.
Bed-In New Zealand: i don't know how they do it. and doctors too.
NYC:ToniSant: i use netmeeting.
Bed-In New Zealand: how does that differ?
wildi30: hi Im new to this too.
NYC:ToniSant: i was discussing webcasting with andy earlier...i think it's in chapter 5 -
Bed-In New Zealand: hello wildi30. Welcome to the bed-in for peace. We are fasting and meditating for 48 hours on world peace. Thank you for participating. We would like to hear from you about the current global situation in some way.
NYC:ToniSant: it's not too different...
Bed-In New Zealand: okay, i'll check our notes later!
NYC:ToniSant: it's a little more private.
Bed-In New Zealand: i see, i figured.
Bed-In New Zealand: it might be useful for another project i am working on.
NYC:ToniSant: iVisit is a free for all...and although that's great in some ways, it does have it's set-backs.
wildi30: i think its a sad state all the way around
Bed-In New Zealand: where are you located wildi?
NYC:ToniSant: hi wildi30!
wildi30: a vicious circle at best
Bed-In New Zealand: and yes, sad for everyone.
wildi30: Im in iowa
Bed-In New Zealand: what is the mood in the "heartland"?
NYC:ToniSant: that's not surprising.
NYC:ToniSant: they just had an anthrax scare at the house of commons in the UK
Bed-In New Zealand: yikes! makes you feel so vulnerable. how do people feel about the bombing in afghanistan and did i read today that groundtroops were there now (excuse my ignorance but we are not bombarded here by us news)
wildi30: we had one at a local post office not 30 miles from here
Bed-In New Zealand: really. there were some scares here in nz too with postal service disruption. true global terror.
NYC:ToniSant: they've been on the ground for weeks! now it's official!
wildi30: for the most part the anger for the lives lost here make it justifiable
wildi30: im not sure its the best course of action
Bed-In New Zealand: what do you think are other options? i fear more lives lost.
NYC:ToniSant: more lives will be lost regardless.
wildi30: loss of life is part of war its inevitable but i mourn for the innocent
wildi30: on all sides
Bed-In New Zealand: such a hard question. what are the answers? what can be done that would serve "justice"?
Bed-In New Zealand: or be judicious?
Bed-In New Zealand: how did you hear about the bed-in wildi?
wildi30: i dont think for the people that have died any justice can be served
wildi30: just surfed across it
Bed-In New Zealand: I see
Bed-In New Zealand: the concept of justice is an interesting and complex one. justice for who and at what cost and really, does it make anybody feel better in the long run.